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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:32 am
Posts: 24
Location: Lititz, Pennsylvania, USA
Maybe Nick was just feeling so down and depressed, it wasn't intentional at all. Maybe he was just thinking that he could start feeling better by taking more that night. The feelings of being overwhelmed could have fogged his thoughts about it....desperation.

I think it's very sad that he was expecting recognition and rewards for his efforts (he worked very hard on his songs), and it didn't come back to him. But I'm sure there were many who let him know how much he was respected and appreciated within his small circle of friends and acquaintances. It probably wasn't enough to pull him back up, enough to continue with the passion he had for some years. He certainly was disillusioned and disappointed.

No one will ever know. There are probably things he needed to accomplish in other places that he could not do in this physical life and it was his time to go. That's what I think.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:36 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:23 pm
Posts: 699
Location: United Kingdom
Stubeedoobee wrote:
No one will ever know


That pretty much sums it up for me. I've started replies to this thread several times and deleted them because I wasn't quite sure what I wanted to say. I'm still not exactly but it goes something like this...

None of us (with a couple of exceptions on the forum) ever met Nick and speculating about what may or may not have been 'wrong' with him (based on what we've read and the labels medicine has since invented for various conditions) seems pointless to me and a tiny bit distasteful.

I understand (to some degree) the 'need to know' when it comes to artists we admire but I'm not sure knowing that Nick should have been diagnosed with 'X' would make much difference. The overall feeling I get is that, especially in the UK, we're just not very good at dealing with people who have emotional difficulties of any kind (let alone being good at asking for hep if we have them ourselves) and that's sad.

Nick was clearly troubled to some degree but many who met him (Robert Kirby included) point out that he was often happy as well.

We have three beautiful albums worth of music (plus various other bits) to remember Nick by - that's all I will ever have to remember him by and it's enough for me.

I know that nobody on this forum has anything other than the best of intentions when it comes to Nick and his music so this isn't intended as a dig at anyone. Just my personal thoughts on the discussion.

Cheers,
Matt


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:06 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:04 am
Posts: 84
Location: Indianapolis, US
Matt (admin) wrote:
Stubeedoobee wrote:
No one will ever know


That pretty much sums it up for me. I've started replies to this thread several times and deleted them because I wasn't quite sure what I wanted to say. I'm still not exactly but it goes something like this...

None of us (with a couple of exceptions on the forum) ever met Nick and speculating about what may or may not have been 'wrong' with him (based on what we've read and the labels medicine has since invented for various conditions) seems pointless to me and a tiny bit distasteful.

I understand (to some degree) the 'need to know' when it comes to artists we admire but I'm not sure knowing that Nick should have been diagnosed with 'X' would make much difference. The overall feeling I get is that, especially in the UK, we're just not very good at dealing with people who have emotional difficulties of any kind (let alone being good at asking for hep if we have them ourselves) and that's sad.

Nick was clearly troubled to some degree but many who met him (Robert Kirby included) point out that he was often happy as well.

We have three beautiful albums worth of music (plus various other bits) to remember Nick by - that's all I will ever have to remember him by and it's enough for me.

I know that nobody on this forum has anything other than the best of intentions when it comes to Nick and his music so this isn't intended as a dig at anyone. Just my personal thoughts on the discussion.

Cheers,
Matt



Your thoughts reflect much of mine. And I still think that Nick's music is what is meant to be and what he longed (as it was told by his mother). He wanted what every artist wants, having his music known and sang for many, having his work recognized and rewarded.

Not only Nick's, but everyone's inner life is a very delicate matter. Seeing like that can make easier to understand that human life is not much about straight lines and labels.

Between a moment when a man composed Black Eyed Dog and another when he did From the Morning I only get to see a living soul, going through the road, just like Nick described himself. Anyone goes to ups and downs but, about Nick Drake, that seems to be... curious?!?

Nick doesn't fit in any label, classification, compartment, just like any of us. But with a very special detail: he left a wonderful music that makes a lovely difference in anyone's life. That's the way I feel in the morning, while driving to work and listening to Man in a Shed... "boy, what a charming, sun kissing thing, you make my day".
It may be not the anglo way, but it's the happiest I find to keep Nick's songs and pass it ahead.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:29 pm 
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Location: Wirksworth
I know what you are saying Matt, and with respect to this thread I think you have a point. However, I do feel it is legitimate for those that did not know Nick personally to try and understand him. Afterall, if the music where enough then there would be no need for two (soon to be three) biographies, various documentaries and numerous websites. To me, Nick was not only a writer of beautiful songs, but a beautiful person as well - and damn fanciable! It is the same with Vincent van Gogh, Kurt Cobain, Ian Curtis, Karen Carpenter and Sylvia Plath - among many, many others. Art and mental illness can be troubled companions indeed and as someone who has been there myself I have no problem seeing these issues being brought out into the open. As you say, our British reserve and discomfort is often part of the problem.

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but never a thing of value
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:18 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:04 am
Posts: 84
Location: Indianapolis, US
Seran wrote:
Afterall, if the music where enough then there would be no need for two (soon to be three) biographies,



Sorry for the interruption, Seran. Please, what about that third biography?
Who is writing and when it will be released?
Could you tell us? I do appreciate.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:38 pm 
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See thread "Nick Drake: The Pink Moon Files by Jason Creed"

_________________
I have stolen a man
but never a thing of value
I roll up the bamboo blind

Suzuki Masajo


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:39 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:23 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
Seran wrote:
Art and mental illness can be troubled companions indeed and as someone who has been there myself I have no problem seeing these issues being brought out into the open. As you say, our British reserve and discomfort is often part of the problem.


I totally agree with that, which was (in part) my point. I certainly think we should discuss these things, I'm just not sure how useful it is to try and retrospectively apply conditions to someone we've never even met in person. You're absolutely right that British reluctance to discuss these things is part of the problem.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:38 pm
Posts: 126
Location: London
Matt, I really don't think anyone intended to be distasteful in this discussion.
To be honest, I think there are far, far too many labels attached to medical conditions we don't actually know much about (especially those considered to be mental illness). Maybe it makes people feel feel better to be able to stick someone in a box and slap a label on it...I don't know :?

We do know that Nick was taking anti-depressants and that he died from an overdose of them, whether that was his intention, I agree we'll never know...but he was taking them and that means that his doctor considered him to be depressed.

Personally, I think anti-depressants are a waste of time. I was given them after a series of family tragedies and I found I was unable to function and part of 'me' was lost. I flushed them down the loo...best thing I ever did.

Maybe, if Nick had done the same thing, he'd still be with us today. There isn't a pill for everything and sometimes they can actually make things worse.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:52 am 
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toffina1 wrote:

Personally, I think anti-depressants are a waste of time. I was given them after a series of family tragedies and I found I was unable to function and part of 'me' was lost. I flushed them down the loo...best thing I ever did.


Totally agree - I did the same and for the same reasons.

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I have stolen a man
but never a thing of value
I roll up the bamboo blind

Suzuki Masajo


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:34 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:23 pm
Posts: 699
Location: United Kingdom
Mee too - made me worried that I wasn't feeling anything at all. I also suffer from a bad back from time to time and, if I take painkillers that get rid of ALL the pain, I never know when I'm sitting in the wrong position (pain does have a function after all!). That's how the pills made me feel - like everything was equal in terms of how it affected me (i.e. not at all)

I think they can be useful in terms of stabilising people while other treatments are sorted out but I don't think anti-depressants are a treatment in themselves


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:56 pm 

Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 12:53 pm
Posts: 685
Location: Netherlands
moonrider wrote:
If anyone is interested in reading a very good book on artists and mental illness (especially depression), try "Touched With Fire" by Kay Redfield Jamison.


I knew that name was familair; I also read about her when I came up with the new project of Susan McKeown. This is the mail I got from Susan today and you'll see Kay Redfield Jamison is mentioned in it:
Quote:
Folks,

The Singing in the Dark CDs arrived today. Some of the songs from the album have just been put up on myspace and I invite you to be among the first to hear them at: www.myspace.com/susanmckeown

I'm thrilled to be launching the album in a rare event on Saturday at Symphony Space with author and psychiatrist Kay Jamison (Touched with Fire: Manic Depressive Illness and the Artistic Temperament), New York Public Library Director of Public Programs Paul Holdengräber, and an eleven piece band featuring Lindsey Horner, Shahzad Ismaily, Dana Lyn, Ryan McGiver, Allison Miller, Isabelle O'Connell, Eamon O'Leary, Lorin Sklamberg, Sonelius Smith, Jason Sypher and Doug Wieselman.

I first wrote to Kay seven years ago to tell her that I wanted to make a recording of songs inspired by her book. She responded immediately and enthusiastically and we subsequently met and corresponded. She wrote a beautiful introductory essay for the album. Her autobiography An Unquiet Mind is not her only New York Times bestseller.
Tickets for the event can be obtained here: http://www.symphonyspace.org/event/6529 ... n-the-dark

Over the coming days I will be stuffing envelopes with CDs for those who ordered it via Kickstarter. After that I'll be fulfilling orders received through wwwsusanmckeown.com

I'm told John Schaefer will be playing songs from the album on his radio show New Sounds on Friday at 11pm which can be heard at wnyc.org, and the first article about the album appeared yesterday in The Irish Examiner (U.S.):
http://www.irishexaminerusa.com/mt/2010 ... orrow.html

Last weekend Scott Simon interviewed me for NPR's Weekend Edition (the segment was pre-empted in New York because of a pledge drive). We were talking about Songs from the East Village, the new world music album for families for that I produced.
You can hear that interview here:http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130727583

All the best,
Susan


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:40 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:41 am
Posts: 633
Location: Suihua, Heilongjiang Province, China
So thought I might chime in wit a thought or two.

The concept of mental illness is philosophically problematic, at best; and false, at worst.

You might want to take into account the thoughts of Dr Thomas Szasz, funnilly enough a renowned psychiatrist; especially in for example `The Myth of Mental Illness'.

A person may experience thoughts and emotions, which may cause him/her distress, and which may curtail their functioning in society.

This may say less about the thoughts and emotions of said individual than it does about the nature of society, and what `functioning properly in society' entails.

To a certain extent it's just a numbers game: `normal' being the way that `most' people act.

But I can't help thinking that the pharmacological adjustment of all behaviour is more than anything a social control mechanism, and one that should be resisted, or at least countenanced with great skepticism and caution.

To the extent that psychiatry be theoretical and as an element of research then I have less of a disagreement with it. But once it becomes a generally accepted applied practice (which it has) then its dangers far outweigh its benefits.

I'll muck with my mind as I see fit, for its my mind. But keep your grubby
little fingers outa my brain.

And if I die in the process, so be it. Is there something, aside from death, we can surely aspire to?

Egads, now I think I need another glass of wine.

(I'm talking, in the above, about what I call `pharmacological psychiatry')

I don't have any similar issues with psychotherapy, which really is just the use of ideas to affect consciousness; which is really what anyone does, once they speak.

And I suppose I could try and make some connections with things Seran, Toffiy and Matt have posted; about their experiences with psycoaffective drugs and prescriptions by shrinks.

I saw so many shrinks and was treated so many times for alcoholism through my 20's and 30's that I cant remember half of them.

Now I'm 46 and I don't give a F*ck. (though I do :D ) And I encourage the world to be likewise.

Egads,

Arthur.


(Though I really should try and restrict my use of the word `egads': its startin to bug me.)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:25 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:41 am
Posts: 633
Location: Suihua, Heilongjiang Province, China
Lumiere wrote:
Seran wrote:
Afterall, if the music where enough then there would be no need for two (soon to be three) biographies,



Sorry for the interruption, Seran. Please, what about that third biography?
Who is writing and when it will be released?
Could you tell us? I do appreciate.




Now let us not forget the work of our dear friend David Brett.

(Though I cringe at the thought that I am refreshing such memories; but such is my devotion to the ancient and noble concept of the free exchange of ideas and thought)

(When I see a weed in me garden, I say ` poor little weed, I don't mean to rip you out by the roots, but cold necessity demands that I must.')

Then we have a full regimental funeral for dandelion, with of course a good Irish wake to follow. Which is why I've been quite busy, summer past, and have not got a damn thing done, but pull out a few dandelions.

I look quite forward to the spring.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:54 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:04 am
Posts: 84
Location: Indianapolis, US
[quote="bmore

Now let us not forget the work of our dear friend David Brett.

[/quote]

I wouldn't classify that gentleman's work as biography.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:23 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:41 am
Posts: 633
Location: Suihua, Heilongjiang Province, China
Well yes Lumierre I agree. Though I've never read the works of David Brett aside from his postings here.

Nonetheless i propose that the freedom to convey any thought, no matter how repulsive it may be to anyone, is a sacrosanct privilege of our western world. And this privilege is fast being eroded, and I greatly fear for our freedom, in the west and in the east.


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